Some topic are taboo - not safe to discuss. I've never appreciated that concept. Those taboo topics are my favorite topics to discuss.
Taboo Topics (ordered by fear of conversation)
- Gender - Sexual preferences - non-standard practices
- Religion as truth, my religion vs your wrong religion
- Politics - the correct way to govern a group the results in my opportunity
- Pay for services rendered - why my gender is paid more than yours
- counting - off by one errors and how to mask them; we're # 1
- estimates - how wrong your estimate was and why I'm missing my commitment
- prioritization - ordering methods
- laziness - the art of not doing work
Estimates? We Don’t Need No Stinking Estimates! by Scott Rosenberg
"How a hashtag (#NoEstimates) lit the nerdy world of project management aflame — or at least got it mildly worked up."
A nice summary of the dust-up. Imagine if the tag would have been #LeanEstimates?
There are two sides to this debate - at least two sides. But I like that the taboo topic was raised and has questioned assumptions. I think the think that drives a topic toward the taboo is this questioning of assumptions. The saluter of scared cows (where does that term even come from?).
So what behaviors does the process or estimating drive:
- a list
- someone misplaced the list...
"Unable to estimate accurately, the manager can know with certainty neither what resources to commit to an effort nor, in retrospect, how well these resources were used. The lack of a firm foundation for these two judgements can reduce programming management to a random process in that positive control is next to impossible. This situation often results in the budget overruns and schedule slippages that are all too common." -- J.A FarquharDoes a Scrum process framework and the Agile mindset resolve Farquhar's concerns that the manager may have without accurate estimates - via empirical measurement and relative estimation techniques?
I'm not sure that the Twitter-verse is capable of holding the dialogue. My experience was not very fruitful nor enlightening. I've been accused by a manager at work of being "anti-management" I've asked, but got no direct answer, what that term meant, and why he believed or thought this label to be useful. I've wondered if it was because of this type of conversation. I also asked these fellows, but didn't resolve my query with the rhetoric of the conversation.
... deleted ... a lot of tweets about actions from years ago when when the #NoEstimates twitter conversation was beginning - some relating to a blog post being edited or complete deleted. Something I find quite acceptable (and do quite frequently myself).@vishalsomal it's an anti-management movement started by Woody, where SWDev wants to run the show @PeterKretzman @henebb pic.twitter.com/lPxrYNDg9n— Glen B. Alleman (@galleman) March 5, 2017
@henebb @PeterKretzman @galleman @duarte_vasco So if he deleted a piece you appear to object to maybe you made a point and he heard your view.— David A. Koontz (@davidakoontz) April 13, 2017
@henebb @PeterKretzman @galleman @duarte_vasco is it admirable to be the accuser but not reach out to talk,— David A. Koontz (@davidakoontz) April 13, 2017
to label one hyper-defensive when they are trying to understand? pondering
@PeterKretzman @davidakoontz @henebb @duarte_vasco David, U do realize W and V and now N blocked any questions about the credibility of #NE.— Glen B. Alleman (@galleman) April 14, 2017
There is NO conversation about NE just broadcast
@galleman @PeterKretzman @henebb @duarte_vasco 3 people do not make the sum total of people discussing this topic.— David A. Koontz (@davidakoontz) April 14, 2017
@davidakoontz @galleman @PeterKretzman @duarte_vasco Of course not. No one is claiming that either. But they are the main champs. Traveling the world, spreading the message.— Henrik Ebbeskog (@henebb) April 14, 2017
@galleman @PeterKretzman @henebb @duarte_vasco So I reject your conclusion; and substitute #NE or #noestimates with #LeanEstimates— David A. Koontz (@davidakoontz) April 14, 2017
The conversation went on from there... I'm reminded of Adam on MythBusters.
... and there is some link to Anti-Management because one is willing to discuss better options or worse options than estimation...@henebb @galleman @duarte_vasco I don't know if this anti-management you speak of. Tell me more as I don't see connection to NE or as we call it now #LeanEstimation— David A. Koontz (@davidakoontz) April 13, 2017
@henebb Here's an anti-management tweet (one of many) from the NE founder. @davidakoontz @galleman @duarte_vasco pic.twitter.com/CdVrQxYOAz— Peter Kretzman (@PeterKretzman) April 13, 2017
@PeterKretzman @henebb @galleman @duarte_vasco Is it the answers or the questions you object to as being anti-management?— David A. Koontz (@davidakoontz) April 13, 2017
There appears to be large amounts of animosity amongst the principle people that were having this dialogue - nope that word is not the best word, here... try debate... twitter shouting match...@PeterKretzman @henebb @galleman @duarte_vasco ... 2/2 because I'm willing to engage in dialogue about #NoEstimates in public? Is anti-management contagious? #LeanEstimates— David A. Koontz (@davidakoontz) April 13, 2017
@henebb @PeterKretzman @galleman @duarte_vasco well that certainly didn't happen, thanks to your vigilance; have you asked him if that was his intent?— David A. Koontz (@davidakoontz) April 13, 2017
@davidakoontz @henebb @galleman @duarte_vasco Point: Woody won't talk with critics.— Peter Kretzman (@PeterKretzman) April 13, 2017
Second point: you're a little too fixated on this one example of anti-mgmt. As I said, there are many.
@PeterKretzman @henebb @galleman @duarte_vasco So you didn't ask Woody about the issue?— David A. Koontz (@davidakoontz) April 13, 2017
Is it just you he will not talk to, because I've chatted with him a lot.
@henebb @PeterKretzman @galleman @duarte_vasco I like that analogy... estimate are addictive - but not that powery - what is your object to the analogy?— David A. Koontz (@davidakoontz) April 13, 2017
@henebb @PeterKretzman @galleman @duarte_vasco brushing teeth is not addictive; it's nothing like heroin addiction I'm told.— David A. Koontz (@davidakoontz) April 13, 2017
@davidakoontz @PeterKretzman @galleman @duarte_vasco ...Yeah, and seeing healthy estimating as "addiction process" reveals that you despise estimates.— Henrik Ebbeskog (@henebb) April 13, 2017
@henebb @PeterKretzman @galleman @duarte_vasco wow - how did you jump to that conclusion?— David A. Koontz (@davidakoontz) April 13, 2017
"despise estimates" not many of the team members I work with would support your conclusion
@henebb @PeterKretzman @galleman @duarte_vasco ah... do we need to review the concept of analogy - I liked the analogy, I find it useful; I think that's different than what your stating— David A. Koontz (@davidakoontz) April 13, 2017
How might the analogy of estimation is like addiction be a useful analogy?@henebb @PeterKretzman @galleman @duarte_vasco that's not where I would apply the nature of addiction in the analogy. Yet I can see how you could get there.— David A. Koontz (@davidakoontz) April 14, 2017
@galleman @PeterKretzman @henebb @duarte_vasco That's not consistent with my conversation and experiences with @WoodyZuill (your good with logic - am I within the set of anyone?)— David A. Koontz (@davidakoontz) April 13, 2017
@PeterKretzman @henebb @galleman @duarte_vasco I'm just guessing but I bet there was a period when he was willing to converse with you all.— David A. Koontz (@davidakoontz) April 13, 2017
pondering ... my experience extrapolated ...
Agile Brambles - Always Estimate || #NoEstimates
the origin story of Agile Brambles starts with the thorny estimation dialogue
When I've Skipped the Estimates - Paul Boos' Nimbicious
Exercise: Estimate the Number of Times you can Fold a Paper in Half
Impact of Schedule Estimation on Software Project Behavior
by Tarek K. Abdel-Hamid, SRI International Stuart E. Madnick, Massachusetts Institute of Technology
A Preliminary Inquiry into the Software Estimation Process by J.A. Farquhar, 1970